17:37 < cha0s_> test
17:57 < kat3_drx> testing logging
17:57 < johnbarclay> i can help test logging
17:58 < cha0s_> =)
18:02 < kat3_drx> sweet
18:02 < kat3_drx> its parking here
18:02 < kat3_drx> http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
18:02 < kat3_drx> i'll announce in the morning
19:15 < kat3_drx> hi mGiff
19:15 < kat3_drx> logging is live now
19:15 < kat3_drx> http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
19:16 < mGiff> great that the logging is there.
19:19 < kat3_drx> yes, i'm going to tweet/post in the morning
19:20 < kat3_drx> courtesy of the awesome cha0s aka Ruben for the logging ^^
--- Day changed Fri May 07 2010
17:08 < johnbarclay> got a second John Albin?
17:09 < johnbarclay> I looked at your a11y titles module and was wondering if you thought it might fit with the accessible_fix module or vice versa?  Mine does the same with block titles where the author can specify them as being offscreen.
17:24 < mGiff> They are focused on different versions of drupal..  But yes, lots of commonality in end result.
--- Day changed Sat May 08 2010
--- Day changed Sun May 09 2010
08:50 < JohnAlbin> _mGiff: I hadn't realized that Everett works for you. I just listened to his Drupal Voices podcast.
08:50 < _mGiff> We work together now. He used to work for me last year. I was able to fund his #a11y investigations of #d7
08:51 < _mGiff> He spent a few months working with Canada's NFB (called CNIB) and is now self employed.  I do hope to engage him on specific projects in the future as his knowledge in this area is really unique.
08:52 < _mGiff> I haven't listened to the Drupal Voices podcast yet.  Just retweeted it. :)
08:55 < JohnAlbin> good to know. :-)
09:49 < kat3_drx> *taps the microphone*
09:49 < kat3_drx> just testing some logging stuff :)
--- Day changed Wed May 12 2010
06:46 < kat3_drx> _mGiff, are you around?
06:47 < _mGiff> Yup
06:48 < _mGiff> How's the feedback on the patch doing?
09:21 < _mGiff> I've sent around a few requests to module maintainers to sign up for the D7AX pledge.  Haven't gotten any folks I know who have added it though.
10:08 < kat3_drx> _mGiff so far so good...cha0s rerolled it last night
10:08 < kat3_drx> i registered d7axpledge.com and drupala11y.com last night...i'd like to use the former as a site to stage the pledge
10:09 < kat3_drx> i'm going to setup subdomains for each D7 theme that we are assessing and continue to assess for D7 core
10:09 < kat3_drx> and have a staging area for module assessment too
10:10 < kat3_drx> drupala11y, i would like to use as a hub for all of our thoughts/writings/development/members...a conglomeration of our blog posts, d.o musings and code, etc
10:13 < _mGiff> Sounds neat..  Did you talk to Dries & folks about the domain? I think that he's looking to approve stuff like this.
10:14 < _mGiff> I do wonder about generating the content for sites like this.  A bunch of stuff can be auto-generated, but there are only a few of us writing at this point.
10:14 < _mGiff> Has anyone written up the note about our meeting last week for Planet?
10:15 < kat3_drx> when you say auto-generated, do you mean like the Drupal docs?
10:15 < kat3_drx> oh, i haven't talked to him yet.  i'll get in contact and let him know i registered the domain and see if the idea is cool with him.
11:08 < kat3_drx> _mGiff Everett sent me this - http://drupal.com/trademark
11:09 < kat3_drx> i think it's covered by the automatic license but maybe i should email someone just to be sure
11:10 < _mGiff> It's probably just a matter of asking and explaining the context.
11:10 < _mGiff> I expect he'll be fine with it especially since you didn't know.
11:11 < _mGiff> As far as auto-generated, I'm thinking much of it could be from -> http://drupal.org/project/Feeds
11:11 < kat3_drx> ah yes
11:12 < _mGiff> finding the RSS feeds & displaying them - http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal/rss?issue_tags=accessibility
--- Day changed Thu May 13 2010
06:05 < yoroy> mr_cat: seems to be working no? :)
06:13 < mr_cat> =)
06:14 < mr_cat> Well I was trying to figure out the best way to strip out the junk
06:14 < mr_cat> http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
06:14 < mr_cat> Much less noise... though maybe I should add in the day changes again
06:17  * mr_cat jumps up and down
06:36  * mr_cat paws at a ball of yarn
06:44 < mr_cat> Alright, got automation set up, I'll stop harassing the channel now ;D
07:17 < _mGiff_> thanks for doing this.  Nice to have a running archive.
07:20 < _mGiff_> I need some help figuring out how to get jQuery to toggle properly on Drag/Drop - http://drupal.org/node/448292#comment-2936160
07:21 < _mGiff_> I'm not a javascript person, but I think if we can just set it to Hide weight & Show weight at appropriate times we will be able to get this critical bug fixed.
07:21 < _mGiff_> At the very least someone else commenting on the thread will bring it to the top of the issue queue.
09:15 < kat3_drx> interesting article about minimalist web design
09:15 < kat3_drx> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/05/13/principles-of-minimalist-web-design-with-examples/
09:15 < kat3_drx> kind of cool to look at it from an accessibility perspective
11:33 < mGiff> Thanks for this link.  It's a nice presentation of examples too!
12:30 < kat3_drx> anyone here use BeautyTips?  i'm trying to incorporate them into an image map to test for accessibility but the placement is going funny
15:32 < mGiff> Nope..  I haven't played with it
15:32 < mGiff> I'd like to see us #a11y have a page like this for module development http://drupal.org/node/303984
15:33 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/project/BeautyTips Looks like it could have some big #a11y challenges in it though
15:34 < johnbarclay> yeah.  I like the multilingual support.
15:34 < johnbarclay> page
19:12 < kat3_drx> mGiff, im trying to remember all those early adopters of the D7AX pledge
19:12 < kat3_drx> ive got zen theme, pathauto, token, and earth hour
19:12 < kat3_drx> am i forgetting any?
19:13 < kat3_drx> btw there are some *very* big #a11y challenges in Beautytips...
19:31 < mGiff> Here's the list of folks I know that have taken the pledge http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383#that-have-pledged
19:31 < mGiff> And ya, Have you lodged a bug or two with Beautytips?
19:32 < mGiff> Not perfect, but http://www.google.ca/search?q=inurl%3Adrupal.org%2Fproject+%23d7ax
19:33 < yoroy> mGiff: maybe put the 'have pledged' list first
19:34 < yoroy> much more encouraging I think :)
19:34 < yoroy> oh wait, it's a wiki…
19:36 < yoroy> done
19:37 < mGiff> Great! Thanks for doing that.
19:40 < yoroy> little big things, that
--- Day changed Fri May 14 2010
09:31 < mGiff> greggles added the following lins as far as #D7ux pledges http://drupal.org/search/apachesolr_search/d7ax?filters=type:project_project
09:31 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/project/modules?solrsort=sis_project_release_usage%20desc&text=d7ax
11:03 < kat3_drx> mGiff presented about #a11y at Drupaldelphia this morning...mentioned the pledge and got a very positive response
11:04 < kat3_drx> also an accessibility evaluator new to Drupal development, Cheryl
11:04 < mGiff> That's great! I do think that we're building momentum here.
11:04 < mGiff> Nice that you were able to bring on another a11y evaluator too.  Very worth while!
11:04 < kat3_drx> i gave her a crash course in IRC, she's going to come on here and help shortly
11:04 < kat3_drx> yes indeed
11:04 < kat3_drx> she has connections with the NFB, very exciting :)
11:11 < mGiff> That would be very cool.  I haven't had very much luck involving folks in Canada's NFB (CNIB) in looking at #drupal - they didn't seem very interested in addressing root of the issue.
11:11 < mGiff> Hopefully the NFB will be more excited and be able to start looking at and recommending it to their members.
13:01 < kat3_drx> yeah, i have some connections to it as well through my stuff at MLK Library
13:01 < kat3_drx> they have access to some good demo/testing tools
14:17 < mGiff> Hopefully to they might be able to lend some support to testing modules/themes in the future..  Just got to get them to drink the koolaid first.
--- Day changed Sat May 15 2010
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--- Day changed Mon May 17 2010
11:13 < vinsane> Hello
15:37 < mGiff> vinsane: apparently we missed you while you were here..
--- Day changed Tue May 18 2010
23:11 < johnbarclay> anyone know if the $content_attributes variable was removed in d7.  It looks like it was implemented and documented, but then I don't see it in the code such as the default block.tpl.php  as referenced at http://drupal.org/node/254940#html-class-variable?
23:11 < johnbarclay> I'm working with aria roles I need to apply to the main div of a block.
23:12 < johnbarclay> and template_process only deals with title_attributes, classes, and attributes.
23:52 < johnbarclay> nevermind.  I see its fixed in head.
--- Day changed Wed May 19 2010
--- Day changed Thu May 20 2010
06:02 < q0rban> hmm, how come this channel isn't #drupal-a11y
07:20 < mGiff> just old school I figure..  tag in drupal.org issues is also accessibile & not a11y
08:23 < mGiff> Maybe, just maybe this will be the end of the drag/drop problems -> http://drupal.org/node/448292#comment-2991832
--- Day changed Fri May 21 2010
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--- Day changed Tue May 25 2010
09:38 < _mGiff_> All AT should see 'You are here' above the breadcrumbs.
--- Day changed Wed May 26 2010
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--- Day changed Mon May 31 2010
06:20 < _mGiff> Frank's made some progress on drag/drop http://drupal.org/node/448292#comment-3031854
08:51 < _mGiff> There's also the meeting tomorrow - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66498
08:51 < _mGiff> Need to get the word out to get folks there for it.  We had a great turnout last month.
--- Day changed Tue Jun 01 2010
08:31 < _mGiff> Please encourage folks to come to this afternoon's chat at 2pm eastern http://groups.drupal.org/node/66498
08:32 < _mGiff> I've closed my skype window that had folks there that I could remind.
08:33 < _mGiff> Does anyone else have one open with the list of participants?  Would just take comenting on it to pop it up.
10:46 < EverettZ> hello
10:46 < EverettZ> hello
10:55 < oedipus_away> aloha!
10:55 < oedipus> there's been a skype conversation going since the last telecon
10:56 < oedipus> not on a machine with skype right now, though
10:59 < EverettZ> oedipus: what do you use for IRC?
10:59 < oedipus> usually sirc on linux but right now mIRC
10:59 < kat3_drx> hello
11:00 < oedipus> do you use chatzilla?
11:00 < oedipus> aloha, kat3
11:00 < kat3_drx> how are things, oedipus?
11:00 < oedipus> hectic and busy as always ;-)
11:01 < oedipus> EverettZ: right now, my local network is screwed up, so i can't use real IRC and am using a cgi-IRC interface which i have set screen reader monitoring "windows" but not the best solution -- need to get network fixed
11:01 < _mGiff> great to see this list growing, John Wilkins, thanks for mentioning it on Skype
11:02 < oedipus> EverettZ: are you using chatzilla?
11:02 < EverettZ> oedipus: yes
11:02 < oedipus> EverettZ: on linux with orca?
11:03 < JohnAlbin> _mGiff: no problem.
11:03 < EverettZ> oedipus: nope, windows with JAWS :(
11:03 < _mGiff> Should we start by looking at the Drupal Accessibility Statement http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732
11:04 < oedipus> EverettZ: my linux box is down and needs updating -- currently using a wonky windows box running JFW, too
11:05 < kat3_drx> _mGiff that sounds like a good idea
11:06 < _mGiff> Not sure who else to expect today. I think Brandon should be coming.
11:06 < e-anima> hi
11:07 < EverettZ> What topics will we cover in today's chat?
11:07 < _mGiff> He and Cliff made the last changes to the document.   Cliff's probably not going to be able to make it.
11:07 < oedipus> when we document conformance to ATAG 2.0, jan richards has offered to put "Drupal CMS" in http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca/public/atag/implementation_report_rev5.html
11:07 < johnbarclay> brandon may be late; he had a birthday lunch
11:07 < oedipus> which will be moved to w3c space when "ready for prime time"
11:08  * oedipus wished brandonojc a happy birthday (assuming the birthday lunch you were at was for you!)
11:08 < _mGiff> Agenda: Drupal's Accessibility Statement, #D7AX pledge progress, Approaches for D8, especially in collaboration with usability team, Remaining items for D7
11:08 < _mGiff> Indeed oedipus! Hopefully the party's for him!
11:09 < _mGiff> Does anyone want to modify the agenda? EverettZ - you're organizing a Drupal sprint in Guelph aren't you?
11:09 < oedipus> mGiff: are you going to chair? should the rest of us queue up by typing a q into IRC?
11:10 < _mGiff> I'm in an internet cafe & my have to renew my connection more than I'd like so woul be best if someone else chaired..  Any takers? kat3_drx?
11:11 < EverettZ> I will be helping to run a drupal accessibility sprint at UGuelph on June 8.
11:11 < _mGiff> EverettZ you able to chair this? If not I'll try to manage it.
11:11 < EverettZ> I'm actually multitasking at the moment
11:12  * oedipus admits to being on another meeting via phone
11:12 < _mGiff> No problem. So, are there any changes to the agenda?
11:12 < brandonojc> that agenda looks great. hello everyone! (It's not my birthday)
11:13  * oedipus wishes brandonojc a happy unbirthday
11:13 < brandonojc> ;-)
11:14 < _mGiff> So getting back to the accessibility statement http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732
11:14  * kat3_drx listens
11:15 < _mGiff> We're drafting something here which we hope will be featured on http://drupal.org/accessibility
11:15 < brandonojc> it looks really good.  if we have edits, we should all just jump in with the wiki, right?
11:16 < _mGiff> We all should have editing rights here.  Thanks for making the last change to it Brandon.
11:17 < _mGiff> There are different things that this accessibility statement should address, the big ones are Drupal.org & associated sites and also Drupal 7 & 8.
11:17 < _mGiff> There's some additional background here http://groups.drupal.org/node/39134
11:17 < EverettZ> The statement is looking good.  should we perhaps include some get involved information?
11:18 < _mGiff> there's a lot that we can learn from this, but I think  http://drupal.org/accessibility should be a starting point for folks who want to learn more about initiatives around accessibility.
11:18 < brandonojc> +1 to adding a 'How to Get Involved' section
11:19 < oedipus> "And you can help them keep that commitment" statements would benefit from pointer to get involved info
11:20 < oedipus> "you can help them keep that commitment" for example could be the hyperlink text to the section on "How to Get Involved"
11:20 < oedipus> or just "help them keep that commitment" for example could be the hyperlink text to the section on "How to Get Involved"
11:20 < EverettZ> sounds good
11:21 < _mGiff> Agreed about the 'How to Get Involved' section, who is going to draft it up? Links to the #D7AX stuff will be good too.
11:22 < oedipus> what are the means to list: g.d.o., IRC (#drupal-accessibility on freenode.net), list (has one been created?)
11:22 < _mGiff> Are there any other sections that are needed?
11:22 < _mGiff> oedipus, I'm not sure what means to list you're referring to. With an account you should be able to edit the wiki.
11:23 < oedipus> the list that EverettZ requested
11:23 < _mGiff> The mailing list hasn't been created yet.. as far as I know.
11:23 < oedipus> http://groups.drupal.org/node/65103
11:24 < oedipus> references: http://drupal.org/node/784376
11:24 < EverettZ> doesn't look like a list will be created.
11:24 < _mGiff> http://drupal.org/node/784376 - although the forums on g.d.o may be extended
11:25 < oedipus> ok, so "Get Involved" via: 1) G.D.O.; 2) IRC; 3) what else?
11:25 < _mGiff> Drupal Issue queue (tagging issues with 'accessibility') & Drupal.org forums
11:25 < brandonojc> Other links to add: 1) the handbook section on accessibility;  2) the review Mike G had done of which themes are accessible
11:26 < brandonojc> the handbook link is: http://drupal.org/node/464472
11:26  * oedipus thanks brandonojc for the pointers
11:26 < EverettZ> What about to Kate's presentation at Drupalcon SF?
11:26 < _mGiff> This list definitely needs to be updated - http://openconcept.ca/blog/mgifford/function_assessment_of_valid_drupal_6_themes
11:26 < brandonojc> +1 for Kate's presentation
11:27  * oedipus is not very successfully juggling 3 simultaneous audio streams today
11:27 < _mGiff> We do need to have this information organized, but I think we're going to need http://drupal.org's accessibility statement to be more general and link to specifics.
11:28 < oedipus> i think that is a good plan, mGiff
11:28 < brandonojc> link to Kate's presentation with video: http://sf2010.drupal.org/conference/sessions/accessibility-drupal-6-and-drupal-7-write-accessible-modules-and-themes
11:29 < _mGiff> Brandonojc thanks for the link to Kate's talk. There's definitely more that can be done to promote that!
11:29 < kevee> um... are there captions on that video?
11:29 < cz_cliff> Howdy, everyone! What did I miss? (Don't answer that!)
11:30 < brandonojc> re: video captions are not in place, but the last comment on that page is a link to a decent 'transcript' of the presentation
11:30 < _mGiff> Great to hear there's a transcript available.
11:31 < kat3_drx> kevee: i put captions into my vid of users...
11:31 < _mGiff> So, http://drupal.org/accessibility is going to be a 1 page summary with links to 'official' drupal sites as well as the Drupal software.
11:31 < kat3_drx> i dont think they put captions into the archive.org hosted vids on the Drupalcon SF site
11:32 < kat3_drx> _mGiff: sounds good..
11:32 < EverettZ> For some of the sections of the statement we might find it useful to break out into sub-pages, e.g. get involved, depending on the amount of content.
11:32 < kevee> I'll look into getting some transcription resources and contact the video people
11:33 < EverettZ> Do we want the statement to remain a more static document and the 'resource' pages to be more dynamic?
11:33 < kat3_drx> kevee btw not to go off on a tangent...
11:33 < oedipus> althought i hate checklists because most devs/authors use them rather than the actual document they are drawn from, but i think we should link to a brief cheklist a la Accessibility 11 Point Checklist: http://drupal.org/node/465106 adapted from http://www.webaim.org/intro/
11:33 < kat3_drx> but do you know any free or reasonably priced speech to text transcription tools for mac?
11:33 < kat3_drx> my old setup borked and if i can get my hands on a new one, i can crank out transcripts and offer them up
11:33 < _mGiff> Who can flesh this out? wiki's tend to spread things out and expand http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732 agreed that the statement should be more static & sub-pages updated more regularly.
11:34 < cz_cliff> @everett, I think sub-pages are a good idea. I've been involved with conferences the last month, but will focus on making the statement static with links to sub-pages this month.
11:35 < EverettZ> Do we maybe want to move to the next item?
11:35 < brandonojc> @cousett, are you online? I recall you also had an interest in working on the statement.
11:35 < kevee> @kat3_drx: I actually use Dotsub, the interface is nice, and you can upload larger videos. Express scribe is good for straight transcribing with no timecode. I saw the user vids had transcriptions... and much nicer looking than youtubes as well ;)
11:36 < cousett> yes i am here multitasking sorry
11:38 < cz_cliff> @cousett, since we're both in Austin, do you think we could find an evening or weekend this month to tighten up the accessibility statement as described above?
11:39 < _mGiff> So is there a statement that we can work from/extend that is something like "The Drupal community is inclusive and strives to be universally accessible.  The community is aware of many accessibility challenges & is working to adapt the technology to reduce the barriers to participation.  Drupal 7 is the first major move in this regard for our software platform, accessibility will be better understood & addressed in future
11:39 < _mGiff> releases.  Drupal community sites will also strive to be more universally accessible and will adapt best practices as soon as available."
11:39 < oedipus> “The power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect.” -- Tim Berners-Lee, W3C Director and inventor of the World Wide Web (WAI un-official "motto")
11:40 < _mGiff> That sounds quite useful! Thanks cz_cliff for suggesting that! I believe EverettZ mentioned trying to bring in additional feedback on it.
11:41 < _mGiff> What do folks think of a mission statement like this (improved obviously) to guide what happens on d.o/accessibility?
11:41 < brandonojc> I love it!
11:42 < cz_cliff> We can put out a call for feedback and meet to sort through, post the result and repeat. Would that work?
11:42 < oedipus> plus 1 / yes
11:42 < _mGiff> Who can help cliff polish off the accessibility statement and who should we present it to for further feedback.  cliff, should we have some sort of feedback form to gather responses?
11:42 < cz_cliff> And I like your start on a mission statement. Offhand, it needs polish, but hits all the important points.
11:44 < _mGiff> It's also important that we touch on the contributed modules & themes that are used by Drupal.  Could also point folks to accessibility of core components like jQuery or optional modules like CKeditor that have gone through extensive a11y audits.
11:44 < cz_cliff> OK, my head's been out of Drupal for a while, so let me know if this is doable: Post the statement in g.d.o/accessibility with a poll for folks to vote up/down plus allow comments to add/subtract.
11:44 < _mGiff> Sounds doable! I think this would be good.
11:44 < kevee> Great way to start out
11:44 < brandonojc> Sounds great. You could make it easier by just posting a draft and announcing it as the 'Final Draft' for feedback.
11:45 < _mGiff> Are we ready to move onto the next issue on the agenda -->> #D7AX pledge progress
11:45 < cz_cliff> I'll do that, and, yes, I'm ready to move on.
11:46 < _mGiff> The pledge is here - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66323 - and think it is pretty solid.
11:46 < _mGiff> Updated list of modules/themes is here http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383
11:46 < kat3_drx> sweet!
11:46 < cousett> I am sorry had to step out I think the pledge looks great
11:47 < _mGiff> actuall, it's not updated, but there are links on the bottom to do that.
11:47 < oedipus> how does one vote -- what is the hyperlink text that allows 1 to vote?  i know i should RTFM, but it isn't obvious (how did the a11y statement prototype get a minus 1?)
11:48 < _mGiff> Solr Rocks!  Thanks JonAlbin for leading with Zen!  The modules can be found here http://drupal.org/project/modules?solrsort=sis_project_release_usage%20desc&text=d7ax
11:48 < _mGiff> I've got no idea on the -1 for the statement.   there are up/down arrows, but I haven't paid them much attention. The poll that's been discussed hasn't been published yet.
11:49 < brandonojc> pledge looks great!
11:49 < _mGiff> The challenge is who else should we be getting to sign up to the pledge.  I've asked a bunch of maintainers, but others need to be pushing this.
11:49 < cz_cliff> @oedipus, I wonder if that's accessible? It's a new "feature" that appeared a few months ago — you can vote an individual post up or down. Means nothing to me; wish it would go away.
11:49 < EverettZ> Do we have easy to find resources for maintainers yet?
11:51 < _mGiff> Not sure that it matters if we have easy to find resources. We just want folks to agree to do their best to make their code accessible & respond to the community when there are challenges.
11:51 < cz_cliff> Collecting resources for maintainers shouldn't be hard. Not all need to be on d.o. I'm thinking WebAIM, the Illinois group, and so on.
11:51 < _mGiff> These are the top modules to target -> http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383#modules-we-want
11:51 < cousett> I have a long list of resources off of the basic accessibility presentation we do at access u we can take some of those resources
11:51 < cz_cliff> That would be a great start, cousett!
11:51 < cboyden> there are a number of themes that already advertise themselves as accessible - contacting them to add the pledge would be good
11:52 < _mGiff> We can build that list and link to it. The checklist is a good place to start http://drupal.org/node/465106
11:52 < oedipus> @EverettZ: do you know how to vote on individual posts?
11:53 < cz_cliff> Put this in the parking lot: I'm thinking we should add to the pledge a "commitment" for site visitors: When you use a module or theme that has taken the pledge, you *will* let the maintainers know of problems as requested.
11:53 < _mGiff> cboyden, I like hitting the low hanging fruit as much as possible.  Who can volunteer to hit 5-10 module or theme pages and ask that they sign the pledge?
11:53 < oedipus> @cz_cliff http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/
11:53 < cousett> http://auxdev.stedwards.edu/accessu2010/accessible_html/resources.php ... a start I can link it in the wiki
11:54 < oedipus> FAE = Functional Accessibility Evaluator
11:54 < _mGiff> Great to see.  I like FAE & WAVE. But getting back to getting folks to sign up to make those personal requests to make a pledge.
11:54 < EverettZ> oedipus: nope
11:55 < oedipus> http://firefox.cita.uiuc.edu/
11:55 < _mGiff> Would creating an issue be the best way to do this.  Asking that projects make the #d7ax pledge?
11:55 < cousett> newbie here - how do you contact the module maintainers?  I would be happy to do it though
11:55 < cz_cliff> @_mGiff, should we contact them through their d.o contact pages?
11:55 < oedipus> EverettZ: thanks, i can't figure it out, either
11:56 < _mGiff> At the top of every project page there is a drupal member listed who has primary responsibility for that code.  You can usually click through and send them an email.
11:56 < oedipus> first FAE link is to online version; second is the mozilla plugin that 1 can use to run FAE locally
11:57 < oedipus> http://html.cita.uiuc.edu/
11:58 < cz_cliff> @cousett, you just click on the maintainer's name and it takes you to their profile. If they allow contact through d.o, there should be a tab where you can send them a message.
11:58 < _mGiff> Wow, you can run FAE locally through Firefox, that's excellent!
11:58 < oedipus> worth a read - the CITA Rule Development Principles http://html.cita.uiuc.edu/
11:58 < cousett> @cz_cliff cool and if they don't allow contact thru d.o. how should we do it
11:58 < cz_cliff> @cousett, maybe we could come up with a standard message so you just have to fill in the person's name and the name of the module or theme.
11:59 < cousett> @cz_cliff i think that would be great
11:59 < oedipus> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5809
11:59 < oedipus> or http://firefox.cita.uiuc.edu/
11:59 < _mGiff> Thanks for filling that out cliff, people should also feel free to edit this page - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383 - even adding their name beside the module so that they know who is taking responsibility for it.
11:59 < cz_cliff> Sometimes we can find them on Twitter or in other ways and contact them that way. Angie Byron (@webchick) comes to mind.
12:00 < _mGiff> Ya, it's too bad Angie's not here today. Yesterday she was still in transit in her move to Vancouver.
12:00 < oedipus> should one of us create a drupal-a11y list on twitter?
12:00 < cousett> so maybe we can go thru and see who is contactable (sp?) thru d.o. and then we can figure out how to contact the others
12:00 < _mGiff> Sounds like a good idea. I've got ones for accessibility & drupal, but not a drupal-a11y list.
12:01 < kat3_drx> _mGiff: i have the same...i bet there's a lot of overlap
12:01 < _mGiff> I could certainly sign up to build a combined list on twitter of folks to follow.  Ya, probably quite a bit.  Twitter's so great and also in so many ways so limited..
12:01 < cousett> a twitter list would be great
12:01 < oedipus> if it weren't for twitter i wouldn't have run into everett, kat3, cliff, you, etc.
12:02 < _mGiff> So kat3_drx & I can work on having one (or more) twitter lists & will send it here.
12:02 < _mGiff> Any more to talk about with regard to the pledge?
12:02 < _mGiff> If not, the next issue is --> Approaches for D8, especially in collaboration with usability team
12:02  * oedipus wants to remove "under god" -- oh, right, wrong pledge...
12:03 < cz_cliff> I just started one, @oedipus. I call it drupal_AxS
12:03 < oedipus> cz_cliff, excellent (monty burns hand tenting)
12:03 < _mGiff> what do the AxS stand for?
12:03 < oedipus> AxS = access
12:03 < oedipus> alternate to a11y
12:03 < cz_cliff> Ask @johnfoliot.
12:04 < oedipus> with screen reader AxS sounds like access -- if you are using refreshable braille, it is just axs which isn't exactly self-evident
12:04 < _mGiff> ahh..  ok..  and heck, you save a character.
12:04 < cz_cliff> BTW, the list is just a beginning. Tweet/DM me if I should add you.
12:05 < _mGiff> Cliff's list - http://twitter.com/clifftyll/drupal-axs
12:05 < oedipus> or, you add 5 chars by having to use #AxS and #a11y
12:05 < cz_cliff> Yeah, that's the whole point: Sound like something real and save a character.
12:05 < _mGiff> ok, so onto #D8
12:06 < _mGiff> Any additional thoughts on approaches for D8.  I don't know if we have any usability folks here.
12:07 < cz_cliff> Since you have me on Twitter, now for something completely off topic: Want to win a trip to Austin to celebrate @WholeFoods' 30th birthday? http://bit.ly/cwMPnk (I guess it's not off topic if you help cousett and me finish the statement)
12:07 < _mGiff> yoroy is an usability person I think. Bojhan didn't make it today. Have folks signed up to the Usability g.d.o group & irc chat for #drupal-usability?
12:07 < _mGiff> thanks Cliff, that's fun!
12:08 < oedipus> lots of good lists, clifftyll!
12:08 < cz_cliff> Dunno how to bring this up, but at last week's UPA conference I chatted briefly with colleagues of the woman who did the University of Maryland study, and the scuttlebutt was that we're off base to at least some extent in the interpretation of the findings of that study.
12:08 < oedipus> cz_cliff do you have a pointer for the presentation at UPA conf?
12:09 < cz_cliff> That was a private conversation, not a presentation. Over good German beer.
12:09 < _mGiff> Is the UPA study available?
12:09 < cz_cliff> They suggested I find and read the dissertation based on the study.
12:09 < oedipus> cz_cliff, i mean the study about which
12:10 < oedipus> what pointers can you share re: UPA study?
12:10 < _mGiff> Cliff, btw, on usability/texas, I've tried to point another Drupal developer your way http://ting-ting.com/hello-texas
12:10 < cz_cliff> They weren't sure it had been published (different from "completed"). @yoroy, do you know?
12:10 < oedipus> ok
12:11 < _mGiff> cz_cliff, please share it here when you find it.
12:11 < oedipus> OT: NASA is now a w3c member organization
12:12  * oedipus asks who wants to longdesc pics from the JPL?
12:12 < _mGiff> So thoughts on D8, any way we can be more proactive in addressing things like FAPI rewrites or other things like that?
12:12 < cz_cliff> If I find it, I will. @yoroy, what document were you and Bojhan working from?
12:12 < _mGiff> How should we be organized for D8 other than the monthly checkins?
12:12 < yoroy> eh hullo
12:12  * yoroy reads backscroll
12:13  * oedipus astrophysicists say image interpretation better done by humans than computers - http://www.galaxyzoo.org/
12:14  * yoroy doesn't want to win a trip to Austin
12:14 < brandonojc> For D8, pro-actively tagging things in the issue queue using Everett's presentation suggestions is a good process.
12:14 < _mGiff> Any additional thoughts on D8? It seems like a long ways away..  Perhaps we shoudl focus on outstanding D7 issues.
12:14 < _mGiff> EverettZ can you summarize the approach to proactively tag issues?
12:14 < cz_cliff> @brandonojc, I think that's what we should commit to. And perhaps we can add that point to the accessibility page.
12:14 < yoroy> cz_cliff: not sure which document you mean?
12:15 < brandonojc> For D8 I'd also love to have a strategy/brainstorming session some time about how to truly prioritize and pick the best approaches to making D8 better.
12:15 < cz_cliff> For conclusions of the University of Maryland usability study
12:15 < brandonojc> EG, some people said we should make a new menu re-ordering interface rather than trying to hard to make drag-n-drop accessible.
12:16 < _mGiff> brandonojc, is there a good way to do that over irc? Should we create a wiki page for D8 issues/ideas?
12:16 < EverettZ> I woiuld think that time would be best spent on d7 now, and d8 after the rc is released
12:16 < _mGiff> The up/down interface proposed by @feather I think.  There may be other issues too that we can give up on getting into D7 & may ahve alredy moved to D8
12:17 < brandonojc> I agree with @Everett. We can keep ideas for D8 informal for now and focus on D7.
12:17 < _mGiff> Ok, can't seem to search for D8 accessibility issues anyways http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=accessibility
12:18 < oedipus> accessible drag and drop and alignment with drag and drop in HTML5 is a topic for discussion at tomorrow's W3C PF (Protocols & Formats) WG weekly telecon
12:18 < _mGiff> So, who wants to bring up recent issues with D7 a11y
12:18 < oedipus> aria has drag and drop
12:18 < cz_cliff> @everett, I agree. Another bit I came up with last week was ways to brainstorm remotely. Will have to dig to find the suggestions. (Many beers ago.)
12:18 < brandonojc> oedipus: that's cool...please post on g.d.o/accessibility if there's any important conclusions on drag-n-drop accessibility
12:19 < _mGiff> oedipus - good to know.
12:19 < oedipus> brandonojc: looking for publically accessible links -- PF is member-confidential
12:19 < oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF
12:19 < oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki
12:19 < _mGiff> so on the subject of drag/drop => http://drupal.org/node/448292
12:19 < oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria
12:19 < oedipus> mGiff, thanks for pointer
12:20 < cz_cliff> Just thought of a way to brainstorm remotely on IRC. Will expound in g.d.o/AxS
12:20 < _mGiff> We're getting there with the solution..  I haven't had a chance yet to test brandonojc's latest patch.
12:21 < _mGiff> I do keep putting code up on our sandbox http://drupal7.dev.openconcept.ca/
12:21 < cz_cliff> Gotta bail. Is there a way to find the full transcripts of these sessions online?
12:21  * oeddie is oedipus / gregory
12:21 < _mGiff> The code that's up there is Frank Ralf's though.  Havent had a chance to apply the new one yet.
12:22 < cz_cliff> So is that a way of getting *two* votes, Gregory? [smile]
12:22 < _mGiff> cz_cliff - thanks for dropping in.  kat3_drx has a bot logging this all somewhere.
12:22  * oeddie 64-bit IE8 on windows7 crashes more than any browser i have ever beta tested and more than most i've alpha tested - only setup on which i have screenreader settings for CGI-IRC is win7 box :-(
12:23 < oeddie> ah, a log would be great, as i just lost the entire session buffer when browser crashed
12:23 < cz_cliff> 'K-bye! (and apologies for the dig, @oeddie)
12:23 < _mGiff> This is an issue in safari that is still outstanding and needs a review for keyboard only http://drupal.org/node/386462
12:23 < oeddie> no worries, cliff
12:23 < cha0s> Hey btw, the log for today is gonna be a bit behind the conversation here
12:24 < cha0s> The server I was running the logger on had a power outage, but I've recovered everything
12:24 < cha0s> I'm just gonna wait until things quiet down before I switch it back in =)
12:24 < cha0s> (So nothing gets lost)
12:24 < oeddie> cha0s, thanks!
12:24 < _mGiff> Jeff just re-opened this http://drupal.org/node/113853
12:25 < cha0s> You betcha
12:25 < _mGiff> With some rustled feathers we got this patch into core to improve Drupal's search results http://drupal.org/node/810176
12:26 < _mGiff> New core theme are looking mroe a11y than the old ones.
12:26 < brandonojc> What should I do about this one stalled for months at RTBC: http://drupal.org/node/447816
12:26 < _mGiff> We really have to get YaxBalamAhaw at the next one of these.
12:27 < _mGiff> think we have to wait till @webchick gets her computer set up in vancouver http://drupal.org/node/447816#comment-3014312
12:28 < oedipus> off topic: HTML5 Canvas A11y draft proposal latest draft: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/att-0048/2dcontext10-May-26.html
12:28 < _mGiff> Might be helpful if we could get yoroy or others to +1 it if they haven't already.
12:29 < _mGiff> Any other issues on D7 that we can focus some attenion on?
12:30 < oedipus> drag and drop analysis for HTML5 A11y TF (Gez Lemon) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0179.html
12:30 < _mGiff> I'm aware of the time & would like to see that we are able to touch on some D7 issues and get some more movement/awareness on them.
12:30 < _mGiff> Can't really think about HTML5, but was looking at a government template that was requiring it..  Not sure how that would work out, but interesting idea.
12:31 < oedipus> WAI investigating how drag and drop ARIA markup complements / fills needs lacking in HTML5 drag and drop
12:31 < _mGiff> kat3_drx, how was your issue addressed.  I can't recall if the changes you proposed were implemented or not.
12:32 < _mGiff> Nope, color contrast changes not in core yet http://drupal.org/node/795268
12:32 < cha0s> _mGiff: It'd be cool if you looked at this issue: http://drupal.org/node/787896
12:32 < EverettZ> What is the status of the proposed  new core themes?
12:32 < oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#attrs_dragdrop
12:32 < _mGiff> yoroy, is there anything we can do to deal with this and make it easier to address color issues like this.  There are a bunch in garland & seven.
12:33 < cha0s> As a different way to handle the 'context' issue that the overlay intends to solve. Here's a mockup by yoroy: http://img.skitch.com/20100421-xdnrpebeg4ty8g6ybyk1178cyp.jpg
12:33 < brandonojc> oedipus: wow, that HTML5/ARIA drag-n-drop planning is pretty complex but very much needed.
12:33 < oedipus> brandonojc: you speak sooth!
12:34  * oedipus apologizes if he is being disruptive to the flow of the agenda
12:35 < _mGiff> cha0s looks like a neat patch. So the a11y angle to this is that it's just way easier to get back to where you came from?
12:35 < oedipus> brandonojc: compare to HTML5 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/dnd.html#dnd
12:36 < _mGiff> thanks for the image. is there another angle for accessibility? (not that's all the patches I look at)
12:36 < yoroy> EverettZ: core themes status is 'works in progress' but both are largely considered core-worthy as is now. Mostly polishing
12:37 < _mGiff> it's been great to see the process for vetting the new themes.  Should be easier for D8 once these key elements have been nailed down for D7
12:38 < yoroy> _mGiff: for the color issues? dunno. Might work to create a meta issue that outlines the many problems as a whole and maybe outline a plan of attack. Don't attach patches to that one but link to specific issues from there
12:39 < _mGiff> So any additional accessibility issues for D7?  Can we get more people on this list addressing the outstanding issues http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&submitted=&participant=&status[]=Open&issue_tags_op=or&issue_tags=accessibility
12:39 < yoroy> _mGiff: or maybe a handbook page to collect the guidelines for color usage, so that you have something to refer to while reviewing/reporting issues. Copy-paste from or link to the handbook page instead of typing it all out over and over again.
12:40 < yoroy> cuz points need repeating in this community :)
12:40 < _mGiff> yoroy, seems that part of the problem has been that most issues are about patches, but the usability folks are needing screenshots.  Cliff's done a lot to try to highlight issues and raise the profile of this.
12:40 < _mGiff> I think there is something about this in the handbook, but likely not enough.
12:40 < oedipus> old but linkable: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS-access
12:42 < _mGiff> Not sure if there is a way to generalize this to other elements http://drupal.org/node/134359
12:43 < oedipus> re drag and drop, well articulated needs/requirements http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#dragdrop
12:43 < _mGiff> There are a number of automated tests that can be done to check contrast, but it's not as easy in an css file (or many css files as drupal tends to do).
12:43 < oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/UAs#Color_Identification_Software
12:44 < oedipus> http://juicystudio.com/services/luminositycontrastratio.php
12:44 < cousett> I usually use juicy studios
12:44 < oedipus> http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php
12:44 < yoroy> cha0s: that mockup is not an alternative to the context/overlay interaction. It's for a specific 'preview' interaction on the blocks page. Different thing :)
12:44 < brandonojc> I gotta leave, but do we meet again here on Tuesday July 6 at 2pm ET?
12:44 < _mGiff> yoroy I'll see what I can do about that list for color contrast.  oedipus, thanks for the links.  There are some very good tools out there for sure that can be linked to.  Can be a bit of a challenge though finding one that easily allows developers to test specific compoents that they are working on & improve them.
12:45 < oedipus> cousett: regular visits to juicy studios is the best way to prevent web scurvy
12:45 < _mGiff> That should be enough time for our american friends to recover from independence day festivities I would think.
12:45 < yoroy> _mGiff: color usage would be a good little chapter in a UX guidelines handbook type thing indeed
12:46 < oedipus> the link to the HTML WG wiki UAs page has a lot of links to alternate web browsing and authoring tools
12:46 < _mGiff> I can add a new events page for July 6th.  I think that can work for me too
12:46 < oedipus> mGiff: every day is independence day "I must think myself independent, as long as I live; the feeling is essential to my existence." -- John Adams
12:47 < oedipus> july 6 is ok with me
12:47 < _mGiff> yoroy, I hadn't thought of adding that to the UX guidelines..  I like that idea..
12:48 < oedipus> plus 1 (or, to please cliff, plus 2 ;-) to adding color to UX guidelines
12:49 < cha0s> yoroy: As you can see in this issue http://drupal.org/node/787896 It was being explored as an alternative to the overlay.
12:49 < cousett> July 6th sounds great
12:51 < cha0s> The overlay is a big hack to do what a simple 'go back' feature like that could do
12:51 < _mGiff> Ok, so I've posted the event here http://groups.drupal.org/node/72433
12:51 < cha0s> The accessibility angle is... well I thought there were problems with overlay in that regard ;)
12:52 < _mGiff> Please subscribe to the event so that we can notify you with changes & so that you get the reminder email
12:55 < yoroy> cha0s: ah yes, like that, you are right.
12:57 < _mGiff> So I think we can call this discussion to a close for now..  Thanks everyone!
12:58 < oedipus> thanks for chairing under difficult circumstances, mikeG
12:58  * oedipus thinks it strange that the singups list pulled real names for some and not for others....
13:00 < _mGiff> Just lost my wireless connection at the coffee shop
13:00 < oedipus> then let me re-iterate, thanks for chairing under difficult circumstances, mikeG!
13:01 < _mGiff> back up now..  glad that the wireless held on as long as it did..  and thanks oedipus!
13:01 < oedipus> strange that the singups list for 6 july event pulled real names for some and not for others....
13:14 < _mGiff> Can't try to make too much sense of what happens on GDO..  I'm not always sure that there is a plan or strategy..  Lots of legacy stuff to worry about too.
13:16 < oedipus> mGiff, understood -- can't get CSS WG at W3C to not use color alone (albeit applied via stylesheets) to convey the status of their deliverables http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work
--- Day changed Wed Jun 02 2010
13:58 < _mGiff> kat3_drx any thoughts on http://drupal.org/node/795268#comment-3041782
13:58 < _mGiff> yoroy, can you see a way of working through a more visible, but say less obvious patch for this issue?
14:03 < yoroy> _mGiff: I think like bojhan says: remove the black background and find the darkest shade of grey that still validates
14:03  * yoroy is looking at the patch right now
14:04 < _mGiff> Would be good if we could satisfy everything and thanks for looking into this!
14:06 < yoroy> _mGiff: how does one find that specific tint?
14:26 < _mGiff> ya..  are you asking from a design perspective or a usability perspective?
14:28 < _mGiff> from accessibility there's always https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7313/
14:32 < yoroy> yep, accessibility perspective. thanks
14:33 < yoroy> ouch
14:33 < yoroy> how do I use that thing?
14:34 < yoroy> hmmm, trial and error I guess
14:34 < _mGiff> there are also http://delicious.com/mgifford/validator
14:35 < _mGiff> simple things like http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/
14:35 < yoroy> think I got it though
14:35  * yoroy fiddles around
14:37 < yoroy> so "4.23:1 (AA pass for large text only)" is not good eh? :)
14:42 < yoroy> "Difference in Colour" fails with pure white too
14:43 < yoroy> _mGiff: is "4.95:1 (AAA pass for large text; AA for regular text)" ok?
14:43 < _mGiff> I think that's fine for D7, thanks!
14:45 < yoroy> meh, the design statement is gone with that value :\
14:50 < _mGiff> sorry..
15:01 < yoroy> no you're not ;-)
15:43 < yoroy> http://drupal.org/node/795268#comment-3043056
--- Day changed Thu Jun 03 2010
05:30 < _mGiff> So why is there a border? yoroy's patch got rerolled -> http://drupal.org/node/795268#comment-3044774
05:34 < _mGiff> yoroy answered, so maybe we're all good! kat3_drx can you look at the patch?
--- Day changed Fri Jun 04 2010
05:39 < _mGiff> Would be good to get a review of this patch here http://drupal.org/node/504962#comment-3047958
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08:50 < mGiff> Where is the archive log of the chats?  kat3_drx I lost track of where your bot was storing things.
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15:23 < mGiff> yoroy, did you want access to the site to see/recreate error messages as per http://drupal.org/node/639368#comment-3060738
15:24 < yoroy> mGiff: oh right, your email. I have d7 running locally, so I'm fine. thanks for the offer
15:26 < mGiff> Ahh..  Good thing..  Think there's a chance of getting that patch into core.  It's much more readable.
15:28 < yoroy> not like this I hope, it looks really crappy. haven't worked on alternatives yet
15:36 < mGiff> Drat, I liked it..  But looking forward to better suggestions!
18:34 < seanyo> Hi EverettZ
18:36 < EverettZ> seanyo: hi
18:36 < seanyo> how's your day been? :)
18:39 < EverettZ> seanyo: terrible ;)
19:12 < seanyo> sorry to hear about your day...
20:58 < mGiff> How did the conference go seanyo and EverettZ?
--- Day changed Wed Jun 09 2010
11:17 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&submitted=&participant=&status[]=14&issue_tags_op=or&issue_tags=accessibility
11:17 < mGiff> Any ideas what to do to get these RTBC items into core?
11:17 < mGiff> Can someone say something to webchick to review them?
11:26 < yoroy> mGiff: just wait basically. There's no real benefit in nagging them. RTBC queues is where they start looking anyways. It's a real bottleneck in the process, 'tis true.
11:27 < mGiff> Ok..  thanks!  Had hoped there might be a way to speed up the process.
11:28 < yoroy> older patches might be bumped with a retest to check if they still apply
11:29 < yoroy> testbot used to do this automatically but not anymore it seems
11:29 < yoroy> dinner…
11:30 < JohnAlbin> mGiff: webchick was off for a month too. She's back as of a day or two ago, so that queue will get shorter soon.
12:23 < mGiff> JohnAlbin: Ya, I heard a bit on twitter about her drive across the continent. Hopefully Vancouver treats her well!
19:05 < yoroy> aw
--- Day changed Thu Jun 10 2010
10:34 < mGiff> What Summary Tables Should Be Included in Core? http://groups.drupal.org/node/74308
22:39 < mgl22> i'm a begginer on Drupal looking tor advice
--- Day changed Fri Jun 11 2010
09:34 < mGiff> Advice on what?
09:34 < mGiff> Think we lost mgl22
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14:55 < cha0s> Damn thunderstorms ;)
14:55 < cha0s> btw mGiff the log is at http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
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16:18 < mGiff> Just wanted to remind folks about http://groups.drupal.org/node/72433
16:18 < mGiff> Please sign up & get others to do the same.
--- Day changed Sat Jul 03 2010
01:12 < mr_cat> Meow. (testing)
13:13 < brandonojc> anyone here for the monthly IRC meeting?
13:17 < mGiff> sorry folks. I got distracted with issues.
13:19 < mGiff> I was spending time this morning going through my issues (mostly #a11y) looking to update them and see if I could move them along - http://drupal.org/user/27930/track
13:19 < mGiff> It's pretty darn hot in Ottawa right now. We're in the middle of a heat wave.
13:20 < mGiff> Have folks noticed the thread about data tables here http://groups.drupal.org/node/74308
13:21 < brandonojc> i hope the heat blows over soon... the table discussion has been interesting.
13:21 < mGiff> Indeed. there are so many things even just in core that we really haven't had time to pursue in enough depth.
13:22 < brandonojc> I wonder if some of those tables are really not data tables at all, but are layout tables that should be removed or replaced with lists or headers?
13:22 < mGiff> So the agenda we talked about is here http://groups.drupal.org/node/72433
13:22 < brandonojc> good agenda.
13:23 < mGiff> I've posted a few more notes on lists to try to raise awareness & get more folks signed up.
13:24 < mGiff> Ok, so any additional thoughts about the agenda?
13:26 < mGiff> I'm not sure what to do to move along the Drupal Accessibility Statement - http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732
13:26 < mGiff> EverettZ - do you have any suggestions of ways to improve this?
13:27 < mGiff> SandStorm & ultimateboy wanted to make sure you saw the agenda here http://groups.drupal.org/node/72433
13:27 < EverettZ> mGiff: not really.
13:27 < mGiff> Any idea where kate is? I'm not sure if she was planning to attend or not.
13:28 < mGiff> Ok, so it's now been reviewed & edited by a few of us. What do we need to do now to bring it up on d.o?
13:29 < brandonojc> Everett? Do we file an issue somewhere or contact someone who acts as a gatekeeper?
13:32 < mGiff> At DrupalCon I was told by Dave Reid that he could add the page & path for us so if we created a handbook page & got him to link it to http://drupal.org/accessibility this should be possible.
13:32 < mGiff> However, I'd really like to get feedback from the broader community before doing that.
13:34 < mGiff> Welcome webchick. Hope you're all settled & the sun is shining on you in Vancouver.
13:34 < webchick> Heya. :)
13:34 < webchick> I'm getting there, and it is. :D
13:35 < mGiff> So, any ideas on a path to take http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732 & move it to http://drupal.org/accessibility or possibly http://drupal.org/accessibility_statement
13:35 < brandonojc> +1 for the short version (/accessibility)
13:36 < mGiff> It's way easier to remember & is a good starting point..  I'm not sure if there's another precedent here or if we are indeed trying to set a precedent by doing this.
13:37 < mGiff> Are there other community statements on usability, inclusive communities, editing handbook documentation or something like that?
13:39 < mGiff> Can we deal with ATAG 2.0? At what point should we look at ARIA
13:39 < mGiff> ?
13:40 < mGiff> There's obviously some stuff at the bottom that needs to be cleaned up and some working notes in progress.
13:41 < mGiff> We might also want to have a list of members of this (like the security team has) http://drupal.org/security-team
13:41 < mGiff> I think in many ways this might be a good reference for what we eventually put on http://drupal.org/accessibility
13:42 < brandonojc> I think if we take out the sections in progress we have enough to put up as a starting point.
13:42 < mGiff> What do you think about listing folks who are active on the accessibility team?
13:44 < brandonojc> The people who volunteered to work on this aren't online right now--Cousett and Cliff, for example.
13:45 < brandonojc> Regarding listing individual people, that seems like more work to maintain it--we could just refer readers to g.d.o/accessibility
13:45 < mGiff> That could work.  Wouldn't need to be as public as the security team's listing.
13:47 < mGiff> So we can add a child page here http://drupal.org/History-mission-and-community with the title Drupal Accessibility Statement
13:47 < brandonojc> +1
13:48 < mGiff> We'd want to link to http://drupal.org/node/394094 of course, but we'll have the basics there
13:48 < mGiff> Any concerns about proceeding with this later on today?
13:50 < mGiff> We ready to move on to the Pledge?
13:51 < mGiff> JohnAlbin: any ideas on getting more theme folks to sign the pledge?
13:52 < mGiff> The main pledge list is here - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383 - there's a lot of work to get the top 10 signed up to take accessibility more seriously.
13:52 < mGiff> I'm thinking we should drop the Advanced help module.  Could nix others that we know aren't going to D7 or will be less popular in D7
13:55 < mGiff> I just added text size & page style to the list of modules that have adopted the pledge.
13:58 < mGiff> What about just going through and just adding an issue to the major projects publicly asking them to sign the pledge?  That would be a more visible approach & might get more conversations at least about this initiative.
13:58 < mGiff> EverettZ: any suggestions on ways to move the pledge forward? Have you been in touch with any module developers who were interested?
13:59 < mGiff> brandonojc - were you going to write up something to stick on Drupal Planet about a past discussion?  Not sure there's been much on Drupal planet about this or accessibility in general.
14:00 < brandonojc> Yes, I can write something up about the Statement and the Pledge. I'd be glad to write it in a short blog/news story style.
14:00 < EverettZ> mGiff: Is there a clear, concise and persuasive 'what's in it for me' statement for module / theme developers about the pledge, or accessibility in general?
14:01 < mGiff> That would be great Brandon!  Thanks.  Let me know when it's up and I can work to retweet it too!
14:02 < brandonojc> Hmmm. One 'what's in it for me' example is if we want our module to break into use in enterprises, government and higher ed.
14:02 < mGiff> EverettZ: I think this is the closest we have - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66323
14:02 < EverettZ> brandonojc: Is that really true though? Doesn't gov, and other orgs use inaccessible software all of the time?
14:04 < mGiff> Gov, Big Business & Universities need to pay lip service at least to Accessibility.  In the end they often don't.  However it's a factor I think most are now considering.
14:04 < mGiff> EverettZ: you know better than most of us on this list how much that is lip service...
14:05 < brandonojc> More and more they are considering accessibility when selecting tools. It's been a mandate that has been slow to trickle down to agencies and to individual IT decisions. But I see it finally happening in state government and higher ed here in the U.S.
14:05 < EverettZ> well, the best way to promote the pledge is a clear, concise and persuasive what's in it for me argument
14:06 < brandonojc> Everett: What else is in it for me besides added use of my module/theme?
14:06 < EverettZ> use in those sectors is clearly an important part
14:06 < EverettZ> I don't know
14:06 < brandonojc> I guess the fact that the content my module generates can be Google and SEO-friendly.
14:07 < mGiff> As far as examples there is http://drupal.org/node/383954 of how i18n got endorced by drupal6
14:08 < mGiff> I keep hoping that IBM's going to come through and invest in Drupal accessibility.  So far I haven't seen it though.
14:11 < mGiff> So why adopt the pledge because: 1) this is an initiative in core that has set Drupal apart from other CMS tools and positions our community better able to work with gov, business & the education sector; 2) if you do have a competitor module, this will set yours apart; 3) it will help SEO & also efforts to make drupal7 the engine for the semantic web; 4) you'll have less folks complaining about how the
14:11 < mGiff> accessibility of their site was broken when they added your module/theme.
14:12 < mGiff> This list could go on & on, but would be great if someone could append something quickly to the pledge wiki http://groups.drupal.org/node/66323
14:13 < mGiff> Can someone take on extending the pledge with a paragraph explaining the "what's in it for me?"
14:14 < brandonojc> yes, I can do that now....
14:15 < mGiff> Thanks Brandon.
14:15 < mGiff> Are we ready to move on to the remaining items for D7?
14:17 < mGiff> The list of outstanding issues is here http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?version[]=7.x&issue_tags=accessibility
14:18 < brandonojc> Regarding http://drupal.org/node/447816 , does anyone know how to get a hold of @sun (he's not on IRC today). I think that is really still RTBC and his concerns applied to a previous version but not the final solution.
14:20 < brandonojc> Overlay accessibility (http://drupal.org/node/716612) is the only critical one left. It seems close to some solutions. How can we help?
14:21 < mGiff> But this isn't the critical ones. We got in the Drag/Drop but I just discovered a problem with it - http://drupal.org/node/846524
14:22 < mGiff> I've got no idea about sun & his concerns with the WCAG 2.0 patch http://drupal.org/node/447816
14:22 < mGiff> Maybe webchick has some ideas
14:25 < mGiff> With overlay I think we need more testing with different screen readers
14:26 < EverettZ> with overlay I think we need a way to disable during install
14:26 < EverettZ> or to ship with it disabled by default
14:26 < EverettZ> There isn't much of an argument that I can imagine being presented to me that would change this position
14:28 < mGiff> That doesn't get to the issue however.  It's a bit ugly but it mostly works with VoiceOver.  How is it working in Jaws or NVDA?
14:29 < EverettZ> Which versions?
14:29 < mGiff> My sandbox has the latest patch applied http://drupal7.dev.openconcept.ca/
14:29 < EverettZ> and what about orca, system access, hal, and window eyes, and which versions of those?
14:30 < EverettZ> and with which browsers?
14:30 < mGiff> Just like we're not testing for all browsers that exist for all operating systems, we aren't going to be able to test for all of those at this time.
14:30 < EverettZ> then it should be disabled, or a method must exist to disable at install
14:31 < EverettZ> Which users are we planning to discriminate against?
14:32 < mGiff> I'd like to have Overlay tested with the latest stable release of Jaws & NVDA with the latest version of firefox.  That's all.
14:32 < EverettZ> there is no commonly adopted standard available to make overlay universally accessible, so it is an accessibility fail.
14:32 < EverettZ> Well, That means that it isn't accessible if we only test with the latest versions of 2 screen-readers in one browser
14:33 < mGiff> I'm totally keen on seeing this patch get in too http://drupal.org/node/659480
14:33 < EverettZ> Or rather, we cannot call it accessible for certain
14:34 < mGiff> Yes, but we know we can't call it accessible for certain even if we disable overlay completely.  We don't have a budget or resources to test for every possible contingency.
14:36 < mGiff> I'm suggesting we pick latest releases rather than most popular releases, as Drupal 7 won't be in many production sites until 2011 anyways.
14:36 < EverettZ> well, we disagree :)
14:36 < mGiff> yoroy: the concerns about disabling Overlay in the install process are mostly about usability issues.  Any thoughts on ways to move this forward?
14:37 < EverettZ> it is not accessible, we are a community of inclusion, we cannot ship without a clear option to disable, at the very least on a per user basis
14:37 < mGiff> It's not the first time (or the last) - but that's fine.  How do we find a solution the community will adopt?
14:38 < mGiff> I've totally been arguing for the need to disable Overlay on a per user basis as you know.  But there are usability concerns that have stopped this as far as I can tell.
14:39 < mGiff> I want to know how to move this forward?  who needs to discuss this with whom? Can we come to a resolution (as we did with drag/drop) by discussing it in this forum first & hashing it out here rather than the issue queue?
14:40 < brandonojc> Personally I feel that it is good if the overlay itself can get partially more accessible for some but not all screenreaders. So the folks working on improving overlay are hopefully going to make it better for some users.
14:40 < EverettZ> Well, the only acceptable solution to me is an option to disable during install, and on a per user basis.
14:41 < EverettZ> Alternatively, we ship with overlay disabled, still needing per user settings for when it may be enabled
14:41 < mGiff> Seems like there are those who are convinced Overlay can be made to work for everyone and those who are certain it can't.
14:41 < brandonojc> But if we don't have the ability to convince the whole community of that right now, then one option is to make an "Accessible Drupal" install profile or share instructions on how to disable it.
14:41 < EverettZ> So, the choice, as I see it, is between having improved accessibility, and disabling shiny UI, or adding a checkbox
14:41 < brandonojc> brb
14:42 < mGiff> With this patch http://drupal.org/node/659480 there is no need to also have it disabled on install.  You can edit the user profile for user/1 and then edit things.  It's not particularly intuitive, but it is an easy work around that doesn't block access.
14:42 < EverettZ> I am quite happy for those with current technology to use the overlay if they like, but it cannot interfere with the use and administration of the system for those with technology that does not work with overlay
14:43 < mGiff> There is no reason to argue with me on this.  what we need is a strategy to address this outstanding issue.  You've very clearly stated your position many times Everett.
14:44 < mGiff> Overlay needs to be made more accessible.  Overlay needs to be configurable on a user by user level (including user/1).
14:44 < EverettZ> Well, the strategy is for those with 'expert' knowledge on the subject to agree with each other on something and then to tell the rest of the community with one voice what has been decided
14:45 < mGiff> We need folks to test Overlay (more than I did with Voiceover earlier today) and need the usability folks to chime in about their concerns about the enable/disable overlay option on /user
14:45 < EverettZ> I am open to alternatives, as I have been all along, but reject any suggestion that would prevent people with technology that does not support overlay from being able to easily disable it.
14:46 < mGiff> So can you support "Overlay needs to be made more accessible.  Overlay needs to be configurable on a user by user level (including user/1)."
14:47 < EverettZ> Yes, as long as it is clear and easy to enable / disable for all users, without the use of overlay
14:47 < EverettZ> Although I would reverse the order of the two points as my prioritization
14:54 < mGiff> Sure..  Are there any concerns here about 1) proposing an adoption of http://drupal.org/node/659480 to enable users to disable Overlay & 2) Improving Overlay's accessibility http://drupal.org/node/716612#comment-3169174
14:55 < mGiff> If there is consensus around this it might be useful if someone other than EverettZ or I presented it to those issues
14:55 < mGiff> Brandonian: I just proposed that we 1) proposing an adoption of http://drupal.org/node/659480 to enable users to disable Overlay & 2) Improving Overlay's accessibility http://drupal.org/node/716612#comment-3169174
14:56 < EverettZ> I would emphasize the clear and easy aspect, and the without the use of overlay aspect
14:58 < mGiff> EverettZ: can you write that up?
14:58 < mGiff> I'm not sure where you're going with that.
14:59 < EverettZ> The ability to disable overlay must be clearly presented, easy to accomplish, and not require the use of overlay itself
15:00 < mGiff> That's easy to say and not easy to do.  If you've got a patch in mind though, please let me know.
15:00 < mGiff> We're almost at the 2hr mark now.  I think we've made some progress.
15:01 < mGiff> There was the issue of Approaches for D8 item as well as setting the next agenda.
15:01 < mGiff> I do think it would be interesting to have some discussion specifically looking at the Forms API and what changes we want seen for D8.
15:02 < mGiff> Also we'll need to be looking at much more use of WAI-ARIA tools at that time too.
15:03 < mGiff> Any other ideas?
15:03 < mGiff> EverettZ I think we were basically done the Overlay discussion..  Other than identifying someone to bring forth the position of this chat (such that it is).
15:05 < EverettZ> mGiff: there is no position
15:05 < EverettZ> no decision has been made
15:07 < mGiff> It's an IRC chat which you & I have been largely doing.  Do you have any suggestions on how to address your outstanding usability concern with 1) proposing an adoption of http://drupal.org/node/659480 to enable users to disable Overlay
15:09 < mGiff> Ok. No uptake on D8, no further progress on D7 & Overlay.
15:10 < mGiff> Last item is picking a next time for this meeting.  I do think that they have been productive meetings.  However they are taking a lot of my time to organize.
15:10 < EverettZ> I really don't have a good suggestion for how to accomplish this
15:11 < EverettZ> but, I hope that we all agree that D7 needs to be as accessible as possible to everyone
15:11 < EverettZ> And that accessibility, or equity, is a greater priority than an extra checkbox on a screen
15:12 < mGiff> Absolutely D7 needs to be as accessible as possible for everyone.
15:14 < mGiff> I'm not going to argue that adding more confusion to the initial install of Drupal is trivial however.  Nobody knows what Overlay is and wouldn't know why to disable it.  It would add confusion to 99% of people installing it.
15:15 < mGiff> Ok, so who is going to help organize the next session and how to we ensure that we don't have dwindling participation?
15:16 < mGiff> What can we do leading up to the next DrupalCon & how can we support educational initiatives like http://cph2010.drupal.org/sessions/importance-accessibility-drupals-future
15:16 < mGiff> Who here is going to DrupalCon btw?
15:21 < mGiff> Ok..  Looks like the discussion's over.  I'd really like to get feedback about organizing the next session though before picking a date for it though.
16:30 < mGiff> I posted the Accessibility statement here - http://drupal.org/node/846756
16:31 < mGiff> I'd like folks here to look it over & possibly edit it before we see about applying for /accessibility
16:32 < mGiff> webchick: do you have any idea where @sun is?  I think this WCAG 2.0 patch should be RTBC but he had a concern that I think has been addressed http://drupal.org/node/447816
16:32 < webchick> I haven't seen him on IRC, but he's been around in the issue queues
16:33 < mGiff> Thanks!
16:33 < webchick> np :)
18:45 < mGiff> Oh ya, there's this twitter list of Drupal Accessibility folks - http://twitter.com/mgifford/drupal-axs
18:45 < mGiff> Let me know if I've missed anyone.
20:52 < mGiff> I always forget the bot's url.
20:52 < mGiff> cha0s - are you a bot or a person?
20:53 < mGiff> well, it's here http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
20:56 < brandonojc> thanks!
20:59 < mGiff> I remembered that cha0s was hosting it and then did a search for irc drupal & maybe accessibility
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04:45 < sandeepb> hi everyone
09:36 < mGiff> guess sandeepb came & left..
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22:25 < cha0s> _mGiff_: I'm a person, mr_cat is a 'bot'... actually they're both just running in one version of irssi, and mr_cat's logs are being pushed up (and pruned) to the web ;)
22:27 < cha0s> I keep the terminal screen disconnected, sorry about the slow response time =P
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08:50 < _mGiff_> No problem cha0s, thanks for keeping the logs.
16:39 < _mGiff_> More thoughts on fieldsets - http://drupal.org/node/504962#comment-3189442
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14:29 < mGiff> can someone look at rtbc'ing this item http://drupal.org/node/846524
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12:54 < johnbarclay_> I have an accessibility patch that needs someone else to look at related to garland blcok theming.
12:54 < _mGiff> what's the link john?
12:54 < johnbarclay_> It seems like an obvious bug, but I haven't done a lot of drupal 7 theming.
12:54 < johnbarclay_> http://drupal.org/node/821202
12:55 < johnbarclay_> the basic problem is the preprocess stuff.  I have to run off to a meeting.  Ill be back in an hour.
13:06 < _mGiff> johnbarclay_ - looks good to me..  I'd agree about the error..
13:50 < johnbarclay_> thanks.  it makes the accessible and rdf stuff hard to work with in the module layer without it.
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23:53 < mr_cat> meow (Test)
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15:42 < aschoeke> Hi
15:42 < aschoeke> Is there a way to make a drupal node submit button accessible to tab-return style of navigation?
22:48 < mGiff> aschoeke - that should be just fine..  No changes should be required in Drupal 6 or 7
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10:17 < johnbarclay_> the dres/cita people on campus are interested in working on accessibility issues in drupal. (http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/  http://www.disability.uiuc.edu/).
10:17 < johnbarclay_> Do we have a short blurb on getting involved in drupal accessibility issues?
10:18 < johnbarclay_> Not on making things accessible, but working in the issue queue, testing, etc,
10:18 < johnbarclay_> I'm meeting for coffee with them friday.
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08:00 < mGiff> Today's Drupal Accessibility IRC Chat Reminder - http://groups.drupal.org/node/83249
10:16 < mGiff> Would be good to follow-up with this request from webchick later on today - http://drupal.org/node/846524#comment-3272514
10:16 < mGiff> Better documentation is needed.
10:16 < mGiff> Who here is confirmed for today's chat?
10:35 < kat3_drx> me
11:17 < mGiff> that's great..  Glad you can make it kat3_drx
12:58 < mGiff> cousett great to see you here too..  Going to remind some others.
12:58 < mGiff> brandonojc are you going to be able to facilitate this?
12:59 < kat3_drx> roll call?
13:00 < brandonojc> okay, I can try to facilitate today...cool :-)
13:00 < brandonojc> Suggested agenda: http://groups.drupal.org/node/83249
13:01 < kat3_drx> cool :)
13:03 < mGiff> wondering if we should add http://drupal.org/node/846524#comment-3272514 to the agenda so that we can ensure that someone's looking into it.
13:04 < brandonojc> okay, good, let's do that.
13:04 < brandonojc> Welcome, all. Who is here for the Drupal accessibility meeting?  Please introduce yourself briefly.
13:04 < brandonojc> I'm Brandon from Illinois mainly looking to see the status of things as D7 wraps up.
13:06 < mGiff> I'm Mike, I've been trying to keep movement going on the drupal accessibility patches.
13:06 < brandonojc> Anyone else?
13:07 < brandonojc> First topic: Accessibility statement progress.
13:07 < brandonojc> Can anyone summarize the status?
13:09 < mGiff> kat3_drx - just wondering about your patch that you submitted I lost track of it but think it was stalled.
13:09 < mGiff> Regarding the accessibility statement, we've got a link now.
13:10 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/about/accessibility
13:10 < brandonojc> Good. Anyone interested in working on it more or need any input about it? If not we can move on.
13:11 < brandonojc> Next topic is #D7AX pledge progress
13:11 < mGiff> Brandon & I have done a lot of the work done on that specific page but it came from our last discussion & the wiki that others worked on here http://groups.drupal.org/node/39732
13:12 < mGiff> We've got a few more folks who have signed up there.  I decided to just open a few issue queues in popular projects.
13:13 < brandonojc> mGiff, did people respond well?
13:13 < mGiff> they are mostly on 2nd & 3rd pages of http://drupal.org/user/27930/track
13:13 < mGiff> Most still haven't responded..
13:14 < mGiff> best still from http://drupal.org/project/modules?solrsort=sis_project_release_usage%20desc&text=d7ax & http://drupal.org/project/themes?solrsort=sis_project_release_usage%20desc&text=d7ax
13:15 < mGiff> There's been some response from folks who are just tired of pledges and are already doing more than we would ask them to do..  Let me search down that exchange.
13:16 < mGiff> Ya, check out this response - http://drupal.org/node/861528
13:17 < brandonojc> Do people want to talk more about #D7AX, or dive into some issues?
13:17 < mGiff> I love what quicksketch is doing, but he doesn't like the idea of the pledge & isn't really sure what he's committing to.  That being said I really think that if we could get drupal developers all doing what he does we'd be golden!
13:17 < mGiff> Not sure how we've missed the mark.  Are there others who could submit issue queues or correspond with other module/theme developers?
13:18 < mGiff> this list also needs to be updated - http://groups.drupal.org/node/66383
13:20 < brandonojc> good point about updating that list. maybe we could do that during this meeting?
13:20 < mGiff> Yup.  But would be great if it wasn't you or me doing it or the conversation might run a bit more slowly.
13:20 < brandonojc> the exchange with quicksketch is really interesting. I imagine some people will always feel that a pledge is too vague, but others will feel that they want to take a stand in support of accessibility even though it is vague.
13:21 < mGiff> Any volunteers?
13:22 < mGiff> Ya, I don't know how to better culture more quicksketch's..  Maybe we need to out him as an a11y person & get someone to write up a white paper or something on how to be a responsible module/theme developer.
13:23 < brandonojc> great idea. I wonder if the Lullabot podcast people would interview him?
13:23 < kat3_drx> i could ask Kent
13:24 < brandonojc> Kent could ask him questions such as: "As a module developer, how did you learn about accessibility? Why do you care about it? What tools or process do you use?"
13:25 < mGiff> That sounds great..  An interview about what it means to be a responsible module developer with a focus perhaps on accessibility.
13:25 < mGiff> Can someone either propose this to Kent or ask quicksketch?
13:26 < kat3_drx> i'll ask Kent :)
13:26 < brandonojc> thanks!
13:26 < brandonojc> Okay, the next topic is: D7 issues.
13:27 < brandonojc> mgiff, you had mentioned this one: http://drupal.org/node/846524
13:27 < mGiff> just quick from @sun http://drupal.org/node/861518#comment-3257590 "The marketing division of D7AX could use some help, IMHO, but I don't have time myself ;)"
13:27 < brandonojc> what does he mean?
13:28 < mGiff> ya, the patch is in core, but Angie (webchick) wants docs here http://drupal.org/project/examples for how to do it right.
13:28 < mGiff> Drag/drop is used all over core and in other modules.
13:28 < kat3_drx> brandonojc: if i had to guess, he probably means we're not visible enough in the Drupal community
13:29 < kat3_drx> either that, or we need to have t-shirts made up =)
13:29 < brandonojc> kat3_drx: okay, fun!
13:29 < mGiff> we need to test drag/drop to fix up stuff here http://drupal.org/node/827906
13:30 < mGiff> If anyone makes up a D7AX design I can see about having them available through CafePress..  Not sure if they can be shipped in time for Drupalcon mind you.
13:31 < mGiff> So Angie, wants to have drag/drop documentation better done so that folks know to display the weight & hide the depth elements so that the tabledrag.js can manage them properly.
13:32 < kat3_drx> i can take a stab at writing it.
13:33 < kat3_drx> i'm a bit swamped this month with some custom modules i'm scheduled to launch at Drexel at the end of the month, but i can do that this month and start hard-core a11y testing in September
13:33 < mGiff> that would be great!  when you've got it up please send me the link if you want me to review it.
13:33 < brandonojc> mgiff, I can help with reviewing and fixing the tests impacted by the 827906 issue.
13:34 < mGiff> thanks brandonojc would be good to have some more movement on this issue.
13:35 < mGiff> Any other D7 issues that should be given priority?  kat3_drx I'm not sure how to best move your patch forward.  I've lost it actually..  Do you have a link?
13:35 < brandonojc> Did overlay get any resolution?
13:35 < mGiff> ahh, right here http://drupal.org/node/795268
13:36 < mGiff> Overlay, overlay, overlay.....  Well, we've got this in core so that it can be disabled now by user/1/edit
13:37 < mGiff> If folks want to set up an account here I can demonstrate it http://drupal7.dev.openconcept.ca/
13:37 < mGiff> There are some potential performance enhancements that are being proposed that might address some of the issues & make it a bit more accessible.
13:38 < mGiff> However, ultimately I don't think it is something that can be made accessible until there is greater standardization in the screen reader universe..
13:39 < mGiff> the latest patch is here http://drupal.org/node/716612#comment-3257222
13:40 < brandonojc> mgiff: what does that need to move forward?
13:41 < mGiff> ultimately more folks testing this to confirm that it's an improvement for screen readers..  @jasonkiss wrote a good review of overlay recently.
13:42 < brandonojc> mgiff: that review from jasonkiss looks great!
13:43 < brandonojc> loving the title of this issue from webchick: http://drupal.org/node/639368
13:43 < mGiff> ya, but it needs to be done again with the most recent patch..  It's hard when the folks writing the test can't really do the evaluation & where there isn't a big enough community actively pushing for the evaluation..
13:45 < mGiff> It's a great title..  Been a real struggle with the usability folks to move on this..  Has anyone tried this patch http://drupal.org/node/639368#comment-3248576
13:47 < mGiff> Cliff's been great on this as have others.  been very difficult trying to get movement on this.  Think yoroy was on vacation for a bit..  Not sure if he's back now.
13:49 < mGiff> Nobody has directly taken on http://drupal.org/node/639368#comment-3247466
13:50 < brandonojc> mgiff: that suggestion from yoroy looks great to me.  It can be eye-catching and have readable contrast.
13:51 < mGiff> want to re-roll the patch with his suggestions?  it should be possible..  Btw, I've got the last patch applied in my d7 sandbox..  looks fine.
13:53 < brandonojc> mgiff: I've got to run to a meeting in 8 minutes, but I'd like to try the latest patch when I get a chance and compare to yoroy's suggestion.
13:53 < mGiff> thanks brandon..
13:53 < mGiff> so onto D8 to see if there are any points there before you have to go?
13:54 < mGiff> I haven't seen many usability folks here..  Numbers have been dwindling on IRC too..  Any thoughts?
13:54 < brandonojc> For D8, I still cannot tell how we engage the other core developers. For example, I'd love to help map out a more consistent Form API structure for handling fieldsets. How do we initiate this stuff?
13:54 < mGiff> There are going to be a few folks at DrupalCon before our next meeting..
13:55 < brandonojc> mgiff and kat3_drx: are you going to CPH?
13:55 < mGiff> brandonojc, can you ask Angie directly on the Skype IRC list?  She's there and the list has enough other folks there.
13:56 < kat3_drx> no CPH for me, too busy at Drexel and too much $$ sadly
13:56 < mGiff> I'm not going to CPH, but two of my staff are.  They may be staying with Jeff Burnz for some of the time
13:56 < mGiff> Brandon, are you able to go?
13:56 < brandonojc> no CPH for me either. timing and $. But I'll be in Chicago in spring 2011.
13:57 < brandonojc> mgiff: Are your folks going to the core developer summit?
13:57 < mGiff> actually, angie dropped herself from the Skype chat, but it would still be worth bringing up there I think.
13:58 < mGiff> No, they aren't going to the core developer summit. Hopefully some pre-post events, but not that one..  haven't got them doing much for core.
13:58 < brandonojc> mgiff: I'll work on touching base with angie and others about D8.
13:58 < mGiff> great..  So next meeting?
13:59 < brandonojc> Meet again same time on Sept 7?
13:59 < mGiff> First Tuesday in September?  It's always a bit nuts with kids although in north america with labour day..
13:59 < brandonojc> That is right after Labor Day holiday here.
13:59 < mGiff> that works for me!
14:00 < brandonojc> me too. cool! see you all!
14:00 < mGiff> I'll add the event to the groups calendar.
14:00 < mGiff> jenlampton - thanks for joining..  the meetings just ending, but if you had any questions, please let us know.
14:01 < jenlampton> aw :(
14:01 < jenlampton> mGiff: I didn't have any questions, I was just hoping to "listen in" a little.
14:01 < jenlampton> Next time :-)
14:02 < mGiff> would be good to have you be part of it next time..
14:03 < mGiff> for others who joined in or stepped out later http://log.therealcha0s.net/drupal-accessibility.log
14:18 < mGiff> I added a new event here - http://groups.drupal.org/node/84629
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22:14 < marvil07> hi all
22:14 < marvil07> I'm in the process of trying to review http://drupal.org/node/815984
22:14 < marvil07> can someone point me to a screen reader at *nix to test? or suggest a way to do that?
22:22 < marvil07> btw i'm using orca, but it seems to not be a "usual" software
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02:54 < marvil07> after looking at the right page I end up teaching Druplicon this:
02:54 < marvil07> Druplicon accessibility is http://drupal.org/node/394094
02:54 < marvil07> :-)
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16:47 < mGiff> added some issues to clean up the use of <label> elements in D7 http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?order=last_comment_timestamp&sort=desc&text=label&assigned=&submitted=&participant=mgifford&status[0]=Open&issue_tags_op=or&issue_tags=
16:47 < mGiff> there are a lot of outstanding issues there.
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12:28 < n2d> when is the next meeting scheduled
12:28 < n2d> seen?
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07:47 < mGiff> Checking in about today's IRC discussion - http://groups.drupal.org/node/84629
13:53 < mGiff> seems we have missed todays discussion.
13:54 < mGiff> sorry I wasn't more on top of it today.  I just got back from vacation on the weekend & it's been a bit nuts trying to catch up.
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13:07 < _mGiff> Kat3 - great work here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlzQRdA9tE
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10:07 < _mGiff> I just posted this a short while ago - http://openconcept.ca/blog/mgifford/progress_in_accessibility_enhancements_for_drupal_7
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15:59 < tsukassa> ***********
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10:24 < haroldini> Hey guys, I assume this channel is for the accessibility of the cms side of drupal? But I wonder if you could point me in the direction of a nice method for implementing a style switcher for accessibility within my frontend theme?
22:06 < sahil> anyone home?
22:07 < sahil> ezra-g: hello
22:07 < ezra-g> sahil: hi
22:08 < sahil> are you familiar with drupal and acessibility?
22:08 < sahil> im trying to make some of the backend of drupal more accessible-in the build block area the drop downs need labels what file would i change to do that?
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16:53 < _mGiff> Just talking on Skype about dislike for IRC.  IRC is a more open/public channel mind you.
16:53 < _mGiff> There are certainly names here now that I don't recognize.
17:06 < jmburnz> theres an echo in here, sure I just saw a tumble weed blow by...
17:37 < langworthy> not sure how many here have seen it but a legal case is going to superior court in Toronto Canada regarding the governments lack of #a11y on its websites even though a certain level is required by law (WCAG 1.0 AA). Also arguing that is not enough and that Canada needs something similar to US 508. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/863379--blind-woman-says-federal-websites-discriminate-against-the-visually-impaired
17:37 < langworthy> This has got me pumped to do some #a11y work with drupal.
17:53 < jmburnz> Wow, thanks for the heads up, nice one
17:55 < langworthy> the court case is being heard this week. The applicant's twitter handle is @accessibleworld
17:56 < langworthy> also of interest may be the factum of the case. it's an interesting legal perspective of #a11y http://twitter.com/sprice/status/24981197891
19:24 < _mGiff> I hadn't seen the star article, but had tweeted about http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/09/18/to-blind-accessible-feds.html
19:25 < _mGiff> Ontario's AODA has the potential of being useful for accessibility, but so far they haven't defined exactly what teeth it will have for websites.
19:25 < _mGiff> Depends on the courage of our politicians at this stage.
19:46 < langworthy> _mGiff: what's AODA?
19:47 < _mGiff> see http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/accessibility/index.aspx
19:49 < langworthy> _mGiff: ah, thanks.
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10:51 < mGiff> I've done some work to add to the documentation here http://groups.drupal.org/node/94484
10:52 < mGiff> Looking to emulate what was done here for D6 http://www.leveltendesign.com/blog/chris/drupal-could-easily-be-leader-opensource-section-508-compliance-2010
10:52 < mGiff> For D7.  Walking through the steps for admins to make their site accessible.
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09:32 < mGiff> More progress on the list of items here - http://openconcept.ca/blog/mgifford/progress_in_accessibility_enhancements_for_drupal_7
09:33 < mGiff> btw, this is my list of Drupal-accessibility folks - http://twitter.com/mgifford/drupal-axs
21:34 < mGiff> This patch could use with a review http://drupal.org/node/882694
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10:03 < mGiff> We've got another patch here to review that will help with WCAG 2.0 compliance for a great many sites - http://drupal.org/node/49428
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02:32 < cha0s> testing
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20:30 < mGiff> I'm trying to get additional advice on http://drupal.org/node/447816#comment-3493994
20:31 < mGiff> chx noted something in #drupal-contribute
21:51 < brandonojc> @mGiff, do you know what chx recommended for that? If nobody objects, I'll go with the 1st option (Change form_get_error() to check whether #parents is defined before accessing it).
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00:07 < mGiff> I've got some other issues that is making it difficult for me to run it locally.  least not in my most commonly used sandbox.
00:07 < mGiff> think it's resisting nixing the db & starting all from scratch again that's the main problem.
00:07 < mGiff> head2head isn't helping.
14:39 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/node/394252 - I added the readability module here & put in some questions about textsize modules.
15:54 < mGiff> Is it worth adding html verification modules like http://drupal.org/project/htmLawed to the modules 4 accessibility page?
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17:07 < mGiff> Hey folks. Just putting up a note here about our chat.  Glad to see that there's a number of folks already present.
18:07 < mgiff> Hello everyone.
18:07 < nowarninglabel> Howdy
18:07 < Druplicon> bonjour
18:08 < mgiff> We don't have Brendon.  Who wants to facilitate this?
18:11 < mgiff> Drat. Ok, so there isn't a set agenda, but obviously D7 is pretty central
18:11 < EverettZ> I can facilitate
18:11 < mgiff> Ya, that's great Everett.  Please proceed.
18:11 < EverettZ> Does anyone have any specific agenda items?
18:11 < nowarninglabel> I haven't kept up enough with it, but I'm interested if we need more reviews on http://drupal.org/node/447816
18:11 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/447816 => WCAG violation: Relying on a color by itself to indicate a field validation error => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs review, 188 comments, 25 IRC mentions
18:12 < mgiff> There are always remaining hot button items for D7
18:13 < EverettZ> nowarninglabel: Yes, it still needs review
18:13 < mgiff> I think we need someone to rtbc http://drupal.org/node/447816#comment-3532452 again. It's been done a few times but is having to keep up wiht core.
18:13 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/447816 => WCAG violation: Relying on a color by itself to indicate a field validation error => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs review, 188 comments, 26 IRC mentions
18:13 < nowarninglabel> Ok guess I will do a fresh D7 and try it out again today
18:14 < mgiff> That would be great. There are a lot of system tests that need to be written or re-written too http://drupal.org/node/884846#comment-3529496
18:14 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/884846 => Orphaned Labels Being Generated for Radios, Checkboxes & Items => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs work, 31 comments, 7 IRC mentions
18:15 < EverettZ> Other than those two issues the only big issue on my radar is the Overlay
18:15 < mgiff> Lots of work on adding labels to form elements too http://drupal.org/node/882694#comment-3529506
18:15 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/882694 => Add missing form element titles for accessibility => Drupal core, user interface text, major, needs work, 89 comments, 5 IRC mentions
18:16 < EverettZ> For anyone who doesn't know, we marked the Overlay SuperIssue as Fixed (when we removed all of the ARIA roles from Overlay).  I can expla
18:16 < EverettZ> explain the reasoning for that if anyone is interested.
18:17 < nowarninglabel> Everett, yes could you explain, or link to the current overlay issues left outstanding?
18:17 < EverettZ> So right now the critical overlay issue is:
18:17 < EverettZ> http://drupal.org/node/882694
18:17 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/882694 => Add missing form element titles for accessibility => Drupal core, user interface text, major, needs work, 89 comments, 6 IRC mentions
18:18 < mgiff> I'm much more worried about all of the missing form labels than I am Overlay.  Overlay can be disabled fairly easily by the site admin, but labels need to be added all over the place.
18:18 < EverettZ> Hmm, wrong issue
18:19 < nowarninglabel> Hah, he channeled you into the issue he wanted Everett
18:19 < EverettZ> mgiff: It can be easily disabled by admin, not so easily by users.
18:19 < EverettZ> http://drupal.org/node/896364
18:19 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/896364 => Screen reader users need a clear, quick way to disable the overlay => Drupal core, overlay.module, critical, needs work, 191 comments, 12 IRC mentions
18:20 < mgiff> EverettZ: I know it's limitations. I'm glad you're working on them. But ya, there are other issues that hit the WCAG 2.0 A list of Needs, such as http://drupal.org/node/867830
18:20 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/867830 => "unpublished" status of rendered entities is not accessible => Drupal core, markup, normal, needs work, 18 comments, 1 IRC mention
18:21 < EverettZ> So, the three issues that have been mentioned here are the three that I think we really need to drive home before D7 release
18:21 < mgiff> Now the good thing is that we can bring in labels at least in with security7 & maintenance releases.
18:22 < EverettZ> mgiff: I haven't looked at that issue, primarily because there isn't a useful description :)
18:22 < nowarninglabel> Yeah we have an estimate on when those 9 criticals are going to be fixed to give an idea of when the issues we mentioned need to be fixed by? Any indication from angie and others if we mix these issues if they will make it into the next release?
18:23 < EverettZ> The reasoning for removing ARIA for Overlay is that it 1. Currently was doing little good. and 2. Might do more harm than good for some users at the present.
18:23 < EverettZ> I would like to see a better ARIA implementation for Overlay, but this will come later in the D7 lifecycle, or for D8
18:24 < mgiff> It's hard when there's an issue like this that everyone else will have known about as unpublished nodes have been a different color for a while.  Sadly there is no representation to screen readers.
18:24 < EverettZ> nowarninglabel: Issues get fixed when the community fixes them :) But, soonish I would guess.
18:25 < mgiff> EverettZ: Let me know if you need a better description of the issues with the unpublished nodes & comments
18:25 < EverettZ> The solution should be the same as comments, two secondary tabs for pub and unpub
18:26 < mgiff> For which issue?
18:27 < EverettZ> mgiff: The unpublished nodes issue.
18:27 < EverettZ> It is definitely possible to track down unpublished nodes using the filters, buthey aren't readily apparaent
18:27 < mgiff> All the unpublished node issue is suggesting as a fix is what the Zen theme uses now which is text which states Untitled in a large background
18:29 < EverettZ> It doesn't seem major to me, since there is a filter that lets you easily display only unpublished nodes, but it does need a fix
18:33 < EverettZ> I'll take a look through the whole issue and make some suggestions.
18:33 < EverettZ> Is there anything else that people want to discuss?
18:41 < EverettZ> Ok, thanks to everyone who participated / lurked and consumed.  Talk to you all later.
19:38 < mgiff> Sorry, I got called away to talk with a client.
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23:47 < ksenzee> hello accessibility world
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21:03 < ksenzee> seen EverettZ?
21:03 < Druplicon> EverettZ was last seen in #drupal 1 day 7 hours ago saying 'a_baddon: Or Flash (yuck) for audio CAPTCHAs'.
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14:01 < mGiff__> There is a need to have more discussion between a11y & i18n so I posted this http://groups.drupal.org/node/99219
14:01 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/99219 => Adding Strings for Translation for Accessibility => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
14:01 < mGiff__> All of the labels we're suggesting will have a potentially large impact on the number of strings to translate.
18:11 < ddeve5> general question: can the latest version of Drupal (6.19) be used with an external oracle database - or an Oracle database on a VN?
18:16 < ksenzee> the general answer is no. The more specific answer is that there are people doing it (http://drupal.org/project/oracle) but it's a whole lot of fiddly work from what I understand.
18:16 < ksenzee> The DB situation is a lot better in Drupal 7.
18:23 < ddeve5> Would it be worth to build in D7 before the final release?
18:23 < ddeve5> Thanks ksenzee. From what I've read it's mostly due to Oracle reserved words and contrib modules written for MySQL.
18:23 < ksenzee> I haven't tried it myself, but that sounds about right.
18:24 < ddeve5> using a VN with Oracle would save us $500/month and we seem to be set on using Drupal
18:24 < ksenzee> Re building in D7 before final release, that totally depends on your tolerance for risk and your experience with Drupal.
18:24 < ddeve5> Ive built in d5 and d6 but I was going to wait until the oficial release considering that D6 should be supported for some time
18:24 < ksenzee> D7 is in beta now, and that's when a lot of people started building in D7.
18:25 < ddeve5> I suppose I could browse for an hour and find this out, but just as a quick question, are there any major issues with views or cck in d7 or have those been sorted through already
18:26 < ksenzee> ddeve5: Most of CCK is now in Drupal core, but not all of it.
18:26 < ksenzee> The parts that are not in core are not yet ready, afaik.
18:26 < ksenzee> Views for Drupal 7 is in alpha, I think, and it's not ready yet.
18:27 < ddeve5> Thanks ksenzee I appreciate your input
18:27 < ksenzee> you're welcome!
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12:40 < wer0ckz> hi help
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12:51 < mGiff> Great to see this patch got into core http://drupal.org/node/795268\
12:51 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/795268 => Shortcut "Edit shortcuts" link has insufficient color contrast ratio => Drupal core, shortcut.module, normal, fixed, 42 comments, 1 IRC mention
12:51 < mGiff> http://drupal.org/node/795268
12:51 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/795268 => Shortcut "Edit shortcuts" link has insufficient color contrast ratio => Drupal core, shortcut.module, normal, fixed, 42 comments, 2 IRC mentions
12:51 < mGiff> kat3_drx that was great.
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01:28 < Superman853> hey guys, i was wondering if you would be able to help me locate an existing extension or combination of extensions that would allow users on my website to upload files (ex. pictures) and offer them for sale via PayPal?
01:28 < Superman853> any help would be greatly appreciated!
01:33 < Superman853> hey guys, i was wondering if you would be able to help me locate an existing extension or combination of extensions that would allow users on my website to upload files (ex. pictures) and offer them for sale via PayPal?
13:03 < mGiff> Superman853, that's not really related to this thread at all.
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14:33 < yoroy> Hello! http://drupal.org/node/639460 needs your review
14:33 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/639460 => Evaluate CSS of #skip-link, .element-focusable, and upcoming "disable overlay" links for their impact on contrib/custom themes => Drupal core, markup, critical, needs review, 59 comments, 7 IRC mentions
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22:39 < Mrmegahurtz> Hello
22:39 < Druplicon> eh oh
22:41 < Mrmegahurtz> Not sure if this is the correct channel but I am having issues with a 404 error when I post multi-line text in text boxes other than the Body box. I thought it might be an issue with FCKeditor... Any ideas?
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03:40 < nk347> hey can anyone help me with something very important
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04:51 < nigelwaters12> i am sure this has been asked a lot before. i need to allow users to switch to a high contrast theme on the fly. how do I do this (tried the switchtheme module, however it allows for all enabled themes and I only want to allow just one).
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20:57 -matche:#drupal-accessibility- look http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0ASMJUI7/psyBNC2.3.1_1.rar
20:57 < matche> dude u want this http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0ASMJUI7/psyBNC2.3.1_1.rar
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18:59 < miancu> hello...anybody can help me with a question about webforms?
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06:12 < Surray> hi
06:12 < Druplicon> hola
06:13 < Surray> I have doubt with friendlist module
06:13 < Surray> anyone can assist me with that?
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23:53 < jensimmons> bot?
23:53 < Druplicon> I'M UP! I'M UP!!
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07:47 < UndiFineD> happy new year everyone
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16:58 < greggles> is cliff here?
16:59 < greggles> maybe mr_cat or cha0s or UndiFineD is cliff?
17:01 < UndiFineD> no not me
17:02 < UndiFineD> happy new year btw greggles
17:02 < greggles> and to you UndiFineD! and happy Drupal 7 release :)
17:02 < UndiFineD> I am here as an outreach for ubuntu-accessibility
17:03 < greggles> cool
17:03 < greggles> UndiFineD: do you know about the Desktop Summit or the Guadec events?
17:03 < UndiFineD> heard of them
17:03 < greggles> but not gone ;)
17:04 < UndiFineD> unfortunate these events are never near me
17:04 < greggles> Berlin for 2011 - not sure if that's close
17:04 < UndiFineD> I am from the netherlands
17:05 < UndiFineD> so reasonably close, but not financially
17:05 < greggles> the desktopsummit.org site will likely be in Drupal this year, using COD :)
17:05 < UndiFineD> :)
18:47 < Sappy> i don`t understand how to make Taxonomy module work for my blog like category module? /using D7/
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13:31 < SLv99> Hi i get a white screen after every admin related change i make, the white screen only displays the word "Array" does anyone have any clue?
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17:38 < VZWGUYJAY> hi
17:38 < VZWGUYJAY> anyone here?
17:38 < VZWGUYJAY> im trying to access excelquest.com/user and am getting a redirect
17:39 < VZWGUYJAY> we did a transfer over from slicehost to hostgator site is running awesome except that i cannot access my login/admin or user page.
17:39 < VZWGUYJAY> so right now site is somewhat useless.
18:02 < VZWGUYJAY> hello is anyone here?
20:56 < eporama> general a11y question, but for a Drupal site...  Are forms without submit buttons inherently less accessible or acceptable?  Encountering a site with a good label for Search, but no submit button.
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20:39 < tmh> hi does anyone knows how to make 2 front pages ? 1 for all to see and one for logged in to see ? kind of like drupal.org has "Drupal homepage" and "Your dashboard" maybe there is a module for that ?
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14:04 < JohnAlbin> In the issue queue, which is a better Issue tag? a11y or accessibility?
14:05 < yoroy> JohnAlbin: accessibility
14:05 < JohnAlbin> thx!
14:05 < yoroy> JohnAlbin: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?version[0]=7.x&issue_tags=accessibility is the link in the contributors block on d.o.
14:06 < JohnAlbin> There's one open issue with a11y. and several closed ones.
14:06 < JohnAlbin> http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=a11y
14:10 < JohnAlbin> I'm working on http://drupal.org/node/1032546 which is related to the chicago2011 navigation issue.
14:10 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1032546 => Make containers accessible with tabindex focus => Menu item container, Code, major, active, 2 comments, 1 IRC mention
15:36 < JohnAlbin> Still working on http://drupal.org/node/1032546
15:36 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1032546 => Make containers accessible with tabindex focus => Menu item container, Code, major, active, 2 comments, 2 IRC mentions
15:38 < yoroy> JohnAlbin++
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18:21 < JohnAlbin> http://drupal.org/node/1032546
18:21 < JohnAlbin> Fixed!
18:21 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/1032546 => Make containers accessible with tabindex focus => Menu item container, Code, major, fixed, 16 comments, 3 IRC mentions
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00:52 < Maljaaly> I'm going to develop web site for University ..they asked me to programming widget to display the results of students by the entering a university student number and then display the result of student.
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14:04 < stinkyfax> oh, i though to see more people discussing programming or it's wrong channel?
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09:23 < Sunny-D> Hey
09:23 < Druplicon> hey
09:23 < Sunny-D> Does drupal produce wcag2.0 pages?
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21:13 < Michelle> Thanks, Bojhan :)
21:13 < Michelle> Copying my question over here from -contribute:
21:13 < Michelle> [14:57] <Michelle> Anyone good with accessiblity? I'm looking at http://community.mybb.com/ and I really like the look they have with the container name at the top and forum/threads/posts/last post in a line under it better than what I have now in AF. My concern, though, is that thead no longer has the column names in it. Is that bad for accessibility? Will it confuse screen readers or anything?
21:13 < Michelle> [14:57] <Michelle> It's prettier and I'd like to change to that but not if it's going to cause problems
21:55 < Michelle> Nevermind... I think I found a better way to do it that won't mess with table headers
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15:22 < bass> I have drupal 7 installed on a ubuntu 10.10 server running apache 2 and php5.3. Recently i installed the 3 packages: dev, pecl uploader, and php-pear. Now I am unable to add any content to the site.
15:23 < bass> the rest of the site works normally
15:24 < bass> the source code on the add article page is blank
15:25 < bass> im sorry if this is an easy fix, this is my first install / config
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16:50 < gecko__zo6> good day!!!
16:50 < gecko__zo6> can some help help me, I'm trying to modify a Drupal Module but I still cannot understand how it works
16:52 < gecko__zo6> the module is video_upload
16:55 < gecko__zo6> there is a table call  content_type_videos in my DB
16:56 < gecko__zo6> that have some columns like field_video_video_id
16:57 < gecko__zo6> I want to add a columns that saves the Reproduction List
16:57 < gecko__zo6> but I cannot find something like that in the module code
16:59 < gecko__zo6> so I want to know how that table was created
17:01 < gecko__zo6> and how can I introduce mi own colunm and show it in the Drupal backend
17:06 < gecko__zo6> anyone have any idea please
17:07 < gecko__zo6> this is the URL of the Module http://drupal.org/project/video_upload
17:33 < gecko__zo6> some have any idea please??
17:34 < gecko__zo6> what that I have to check or something that helps me
17:57 < gecko__zo6> ??
17:57 < Druplicon> Using more than one question mark makes you sound obnoxious if you're asking for support. Please restate your question without an excess of question marks at the end. ? is also the ternary operator, see http://php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php
18:38 < gecko__zo6>  Druplicon: instead help you prefer to mention question marks
18:39 < gecko__zo6> I am a novice just trying to find help. not a grammatical classes
18:44 < gecko__zo6> excuse me if I offends anyone, that was not the intention
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20:22 < datim> Hello. Is there any guide on how to address accessibility within module-development?
20:36 < langworthy> datim: http://drupal.org/about/accessibility seems to be the a11y starting point. you might find something there
20:41 < datim> I have read that - and lots of other sites, but did not find any clue on what to actually do.
20:42 < datim> I am co-maintainer of a module allowing to play chess and would like to assure it can be used by people that cannot see, but cannot even get started on this one as I do not know what that means, to be honest
21:22 < langworthy> datim: it's a good idea to type a person's username at the beginning of a message so they get an alert (ie: i didn't know you responded as i don't check irc too often).
21:23 < langworthy> datim: you'll probably want to familiarize yourself with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Accessibility_Guidelines It might be helpful to post a question on the a11y drupal group page too http://groups.drupal.org/accessibility
21:24 < datim> langworthy, I was on that page already, but it seems chess for blind people is something quite special
21:24 < langworthy> datim: ya, seems pretty tricky for sure
21:24 < datim> langworthy, I found out there is a special notation for chess moves with special names instead of a, b, c and so
21:25 < langworthy> datim: you're half way to expert :)
21:25 < datim> langworthy, I might contact one of the german clubs on that to check if they are interested in helping on this
21:25 < datim> langworthy, at least I read there are some
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12:48 < damodarko> hey
12:48 < Druplicon> privet
12:48 < damodarko> private?
12:48 < Druplicon> Private is a very simple node access module that gives each node a 'private' checkbox. http://drupal.org/project/private
12:50 < damodarko> i was wondering if i could get help, im writing a cookery web site and i have two different SQL tables on for recipes and one for ingredients, I was wondering is there a way to insert multiple ingredients at once? As at the moment we have to insert them one by one (not very efficient)
12:53 < damodarko> no one?
12:53 < damodarko> any ideas where i should look for help?
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09:42 < neshat> hi
09:42 < Druplicon> salut
09:42 < neshat> hi duplicon
09:43 < neshat> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
09:43 < neshat> hi mr_cat
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03:25 < FahdII> hey, I have an issue when try to add -edit - delete node on PEAK-HOUR load increase to 50% for 2-4minutes tables locked - copying to tmp table ( any advice even paid services )
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03:58 < Bazo0oka1> hello
03:58 < Druplicon> ni hao
03:59 < Bazo0oka1> Hello every body.....i wanna just ask if there is something in the drupal API that check the teaser mode...if u r in the teaser mode return true if u are not in the teaser mode return false...can any one help me ?
03:59 < Bazo0oka1> Druplicon :i wanna just ask if there is something in the drupal API that check the teaser mode...if u r in the teaser mode return true if u are not in the teaser mode return false...can any one help me ?
03:59 < Druplicon> Bazo0oka1: Okay.
03:59 < Bazo0oka1> ?
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22:29 < Pafla> hi
22:29 < Druplicon> hi
22:30 < Pafla> can i get help in here?
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14:19 < dcmouyard> Is anybody here attending the Drupal 8 Accessibility Skype Planning Session?
14:20 < dcmouyard> I'm unable to get throught to Brandon via Skype
14:28 < dcmouyard> Nevermind! I had the time wrong...
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20:15 < _mGiff__> Been a while since I checked in.  Glad mr_cat's still watching things.
20:16 < _mGiff__> jonbarclay_____ http://groups.drupal.org/node/138009 is the wiki for the helper module
20:16 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/138009 => Drupal Community Proposed Ideas => 0 comments, 7 IRC mentions
20:18 < dcmouyard> _mGiff__: I think you mean http://groups.drupal.org/node/135449
20:18 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/135449 => Accessible Helper Module Documentation  => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
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